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Ange Mlinko
What Would the Community Think?
Okay, now that you're below the fold, let me back up a bit. The issue of unequitable representation wouldn't exist if women themselves a) threw more money around poetry and b) hustled more (editing, pitching, essaying). This very site is named for Harriet Monroe, the founder of Poetry magazine; it is funded by Ruth Lilly’s bequest. The editors who solicited my work for this site have been women. So my presence here does not feel like an accident, much less a demographic token. But among the more academic and avant-garde publications, which are supposedly more progressive and ideologically transparent, only a quarter to a third of contributors are women. Women, it has been said over and over, are shy of blanketing editors with submissions. I myself am guilty of this – I haven’t knocked on any new doors all year (though I have responded to solicitations). Most women I know who withhold their work are proud of not hustling, not playing the game, keeping themselves pure. In addition, poets intensely aware of the “innovative tradition” are by definition conflicted about success and notions of purity. I remember a pseudonymous female commenter congratulating me on being co-opted when I first appeared on the Poetry Foundation website. (But plenty of experimental poets had chequered histories, so to speak. Several got their start at Harvard. Objectivists published in Poetry magazine. Language Poets have Pews.) Female reticence is a quirk; it’s the other part that constitutes what the Materialists (Materialians? Materi-alienists?) like to call “a system.” Hence my contention that the community has created a subeconomy of scarcity (“innovative”) in the larger economy of scarcity (poetry). Scarcity of love and attention in addition to scarcity of award monies and prestigious publication. The “avant-garde” community, drawing from anti-bourgeois, anti-individualist leftist theory, disparages the reward system of the “mainstream” and replaces it with something far more nebulous and neurotic: Are people talking about you? And so we have poets like Elizabeth Treadwell sniping at Ron Silliman for praising Pattie McCarthy. Is this what it’s come to? With our high-minded ideals, we gamble on writing the poetry of the future, only to break down in public when Ron Silliman endorses another female poet working in near obscurity? Am I the only one who thinks that was not exactly a “feminist intervention,” but a sign of madness bubbling up from the insular temple of Small Press Traffic? I was first put onto the articles by Young, Spahr and Ashton by Brent Cunningham here. I had suggested in this comment thread that Christian Bok’s agenda for innovation sounded fairly masculinist to me. (His list of friends and influences are all men.) My dis-ease found a correlative in Jennifer Scappettone’s complaint that “I’ve been subjected to hours-long conversations or seminars about literature and poetry in which not a single woman was mentioned as agent or matrix of influence.” There are and have been women practitioners of the avant-garde, better ones than Steve McCaffery, and it is dispiriting not to see them listed with the same naturalness that Steve Burt refers to Lorine Neidecker or Denise Riley. But was I too succumbing to neurosis by taking offense? The obvious antidote would be to give Steve Burt more of my attention and Christian Bok less. At the same time, I was thinking, some of the most famous innovative women poets are more lyric than anti-lyric: Barbara Guest, Fanny Howe, Susan Howe, Jennifer Moxley, Eleni Sikelianos. This complicates their reception, because the most radical avant-garde is supposed to be anti-lyric above all else (including original). Eventually, we realize, there is no innovative poetry; just “innovative poetries,” with some groups largely invisible to other groups. As groups divide and subdivide, neurosis multiplies. And so to Ashton’s claim, that the subgrouping of innovative poetry into “women’s innovative poetry” is a categorical chimera. I could have agreed with her. But I now doubt the wisdom of identifying with "innovative poetics" at all, both because I'm more interested in "poems" than "poetry" (an increasingly critical distinction), and because I'm female. For who decides what innovative is? Judging by the blogs, men do. See here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. (I confess, a few of the comment threads are so indecipherable to me that I have come to the conclusion that when some men argue with each other, they are pretending to understand what the other is saying, and each accepts this fiction because it is so flattering to be argued with.) By this token, the old-school feminist poetry is looking better and better! A poetic practice that holds us hostage to vague pecking orders and passive-aggressive exclusions is one that abets our worst tendencies, turns underdogs into police dogs, and uses progressive politics as a double bind. Women serious about poems must eventually reject this model in which a closed community offers deliverance from scarcity by positing more scarcity. Otherwise, we are going to have a long boustrophedon to hoe. CommentsThanks so much for this -- I have been interested in what you've been saying on all this for the past months... I have been thinking about this idea you started this piece with quite a bit lately. For one thing I've just started publishing and editing, and am continually discouraged by the fact that submissions come in from strong and well established male poets, while women are much harder to track down and to solicit from. I've found this is true of white writers as well... I'm beginning to think that the position of privilege allows for the freedom -- maybe to take risks on journals -- also as you say to barrage the best (and the luxury to barrage the new). Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for the strong submissions wherever they come from, but have wondered where are the women... There was an interesting article in the Times last weekend about women and their role in their standing in the workplace. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/fashion/01WORK.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1194116876-Sy0417DuzzvIZeJ92CNNbA I do think there is something to a difference between the way women and men write -- I've been thinking about this idea for the last few years, and the conversation you referred to here reminded me of it when I first read it. I think that women often write the way that they participate -- around corners and with codes and in a language of secret communication that has been necessary as the men have dominated the landscape. Also it's the language of caretaking (as un-PC as it may sound) -- softening obscuring but still cutting and hard within the obscurity. I think that this style of writing is disrespected and discouraged by many editors, publishers, teachers and writers. It would be interesting to look at acceptance rates; also to look at the liberties editors take with the work of women and men side by side. So I think women's poetics does often get sent back for these reasons -- I've heard friends, and accomplished ones, talking about the need to change their writing or languish... it can't all be that we are coy. Thanks for the thinking! Thanks for your response, Jennifer, and kudos to you for publishing and editing. I did see that depressing NYT article (and duly noted its burial in the Styles section. I hate the Styles section). I wouldn't want to make big pronouncements on the differences between men & women's writing (it's too hotly contested -- and I'm not writing a Ph.D.), but I tentatively agree that something is different. I keep coming back to the example of Barbara Guest. She seems quintessentially feminine somehow, and was "overlooked" for so long. Hear hear for the call for "poems, not poetry!" And you're right -- such a call is anti-avant. "Poetry not poems!" is practically a quote from Clayton Eshleman, referring to the practice of Olson and Artaud, and, by extension, his own. Anti-lyric is a species of lyric. I hold with lyric theorist/historian W. R. Johnson, who argues that lyric can take various forms: The anti-lyricists *pretend* to be choral lyricists ("the entire universe speaks through my poem"), but are really meditative lyricists. If their anti-lyrics do not attempt to depict a meditating consciousness, they at the very least provide objects for meditation without conventional narrative or drama. Many of the anti-lyricists disguise their lyrics by grafting them into long, long poems. But the American longpoem (as Rexroth argued) tends to be a medley of lyric moments. I didn't mean to characterize "Women's Poetry," or the difference between genders of writers. I miswrote. What I meant is that I think there is a specific way that women -- some women, sometimes -- write. A way that encompasses some inherently female experience. A way that is specifically discouraged. Guest being exactly in the genre. Thanks! |
CONTRIBUTING WRITERS
Christian BökStephen Burt Rigoberto González Major Jackson Ange Mlinko A.E. Stallings STAFF WRITERS
Michael MarcinkowskiEd Park Fred Sasaki Don Share Elizabeth Stigler Nick Twemlow Emily Warn PREVIOUS WRITERS
Kwame DawesKenneth Goldsmith Jeffrey McDaniel Patricia Smith Rachel Zucker RECENT COMMENTS
What Would the Community Think? (4)In Praise of Online Journals (31) Essentialism? Say What? (4) A Book Is Published Every 30 Minutes (1) Numbers Trouble (4) RECENT POSTS
What Would the Community Think? (Ange Mlinko)Numbers Trouble via the Chicago Review (Emily Warn) Essentialism? Say What? (Emily Warn) Poetic Machines 01 (Christian Bök) Numbers Trouble (A.E. Stallings) CATEGORY ARCHIVE
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Christian BökStephen Burt Kwame Dawes Kenneth Goldsmith Rigoberto González Major Jackson Jeffrey McDaniel Ange Mlinko Ed Park Fred Sasaki Patricia Smith A.E. Stallings Nick Twemlow Emily Warn Rachel Zucker Subscribe to the RSS feed. ![]() What is RSS? |

54th Annual Poetry Day: Louise Glück
